Killers of the Flower Moon casting directors on "unique" experience of Scorsese epic

While the movie reunites Scorsese with his two most regular acting collaborators in Robert De Niro and Leonardo DiCaprio, it also naturally required a great many indigenous actors to take on several of the key roles. And so Lewis sought out the help of Rene Haynes, a fellow casting director who specialises in Native American casting with whom she had previously worked on the 2017 Netflix series Godless.

"Obviously, the indigenous aspect [was a challenge] which is why I contacted Rene right away," Lewis explains in an exclusive interview with RadioTimes.com. "But we get research material right away from [producer] Marianne Bower. So in this case – and Rene got the same material – it was home movies from the Osage, Rotary Club movies from 1920s Oklahoma, where again you can get a sense of how people looked.

"And then there were pictures of all of these people because they are based on real people. So from my point of view, you look at that, and then you let that go because it's not about a lookalike, it's the feeling of the person."

Haynes has been casting films since the late '80s and has "always followed the indigenous path" in her work, so when the opportunity came up to work on this film she didn't need to think twice.

"When Ellen called – I'd worked with her before and adored working with her – that was a no-brainer," she says. "You don't say, 'Oh, I have to think about that.'"

She adds that although it was an "incredible challenge", she wasn't daunted by the prospect given her previous experiences working with Native American actors, especially women.

"I knew that we had so many brilliant Indigenous women who are actors who don't get this kind of opportunity," she explains. "So this was unique and special to find. I mean, in a lot of the projects I do, the men are the feature, so with this one with Marty telling a story about women and the Osage women, it was a pleasure."

Perhaps the most crucial Osage role in the film is that of Mollie, a woman who was married to white World War I veteran Ernest Burkhart (DiCaprio) and whose mother and sisters were among those to be murdered in what became known as the 'Reign of Terror.' The relatively unknown Lily Gladstone – whose previous credits include Kelly Reichardt's films Certain Women and First Cow – takes on the role, and is already being talked about as a major contender for awards glory. So how did she come to get the part?

"Very early on, Rene brought up Lily and I knew this one film she had been in – the Kelly Reichardt film Certain Woman," Lewis says. "[So] we Zoom read with Lily first. Rene had read with her and I read with her and then Marty Zoom read with her. And then Leonardo DiCaprio Zoom read – we were in the middle of a pandemic, still – but there was no doubt as soon as that reading [was done].

"We had tried other wonderful actresses. But as soon as that phone call was done, Leo called Marty and said, 'This is it, this is great.'"

Another key casting decision that Scorsese himself has said meant a lot to him was the role of Mollie's mother Lizzie, who is played by veteran actor Tantoo Cardinal. Haynes has known Cardinal for most of her career and said that it was "not ever a question" whether they would cast her in the film.

"We were just hoping that our role was going to be big enough for her," adds Lewis. "But it was very, very important to Marty and I think that from everything I can tell she could not be prouder of this film. I mean, it's a magnificent film, and her gravitas and soul adds so much to Lizzie as the mother of those sisters."

Read more:

• How swapping DiCaprio's Killers of the Flower Moon role changed film
• Is Killers of the Flower Moon a true story?

Meanwhile one of the most "exciting" casting choices for the film was the role of Blackie Thompson, an outlaw who was recruited by the Bureau of Investigation as an informant when they were trying to solve the mystery of the Osage murders. Thompson is played by first-time actor Tommy Schultz, who was brought to the attention of Lewis and Haynes during an open casting call very early in the process.

"We had a big massive open call in November 2019 and we had about 2,500 people show up," Haynes recalls. "This was just for the Osage and for the indigenous of Oklahoma. And the gentleman who plays Blackie in the film is just someone who came through that open call.

"And because we had this great research I knew certain faces we were looking for, and I met every person that came through that open call, and if I thought they were right for something I'd sent them on to Ellen. And I'm not kidding, he looks exactly like – and we don't cast for looks – but he looks exactly like the guy in the historical photo. And he was just so great."

Lewis adds that Schultz was "very riveting" and describes the open call as a "gift of casting" in that it allowed them to "meet people in a community that you would never be exposed to".

She continues: "Having curiosity and interest in people is such a great part of this job. And you know a guy like Tommy Schultz walks in and it's just like, 'Well, who are you?!'

Of course, alongside the brilliant indigenous cast, the film's vast ensemble also some well-known names such as Brendan Fraser and John Lithgow, who play lawyers in the court case scenes towards the end of the film. Interestingly Fraser was actually cast before his Oscar for The Whale sparked something of a career renaissance, and Lewis explains that these two roles point to the complexity that is often involved in the casting process.

"It's interesting how things work out, because there were other actors that we wanted for those roles. John Lithgow and Brendan Fraser are aware of that," she says. "The court room was the last four weeks of shooting, so one actor that we had talked about I knew wasn't going to be available very early on.

"So what I did, because I was concerned – I think a lot of people don't realise that casting is very detail-oriented. So you're talking to your producer, you're talking to your assistant directors, you're finding out if dates are shifting.

"And so I compiled a very short group of people to discuss with Marty. And so what looks like it could be a disappointment, or, 'Oh, no, what are we going to do?... Because you don't want to lose actors but it does happen. And it's a testament to Marty that he made these decisions and that they both are so impactful in the film."

Since the film premiered at the Cannes Film Festival in May it has received a rapturous reception, with a glut of 5-star reviews and a number of commentators describing it as one of Scorsese's best pictures in many years. For Haynes, seeing this reception has been extremely special, but she says that nothing is more important than the response it has drawn from Osage viewers and the cast members she has known for so long.

"I saw it at Cannes with the actors which was extremely special," she says. "Nobody could have described to me that moment in my career and that feeling of seeing these actors – some of whom I've known since they were children – walking that red carpet and getting that kind of ovation and accolades and respect from the audience.

"But even more important was that the Osage delegation that was in that audience, and just the sense of pride that they had was moving beyond anything I've ever done before."

Killers of the Flower Moon is now showing in UK cinemas on Friday 20th October 2023. Check out more of our Film coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guide to find out what's on.

Try Radio Times magazine today and get 10 issues for only £10 – subscribe now and celebrate the 60th anniversary of Doctor Who with a special issue of Radio Times. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.