Matt Damon and Casey Affleck on navigating fame and their new film The Instigators

They play ex-marine Rory (Damon) and thief Cobby (Affleck) — two strangers thrown together to rob a corrupt politician.

Damon and Affleck spoke with The Radio Times Podcast about the film, their friendship and fame - read on for the full discussion, or listen below.

In The Instigators, your characters make an unlikely pairing — but you've known each other almost your whole lives…

Damon: "We met as little kids – Casey’s a little younger than me. We lived in the same neighbourhood and played basketball at the same park. And we used to ride the school bus together…"

Casey, is that how you remember it?

Affleck: "My earliest memory of Matt is on that school bus. I was in second grade and he was in seventh grade, but our girlfriends were sisters. On the bus, the cooler, older kids sat at the back and the younger ones by the driver. My girlfriend sat at the back with her sister, so I did, too – and there was Matt."

Did you both know that you wanted to pursue acting?

Damon: "I was 13 and I knew that it was what I wanted to do with my life. Ben [Affleck, Matt’s friend and Casey’s brother] had been on a PBS show – so he was a big star in our neighbourhood. He had an agent in New York, so when I was 16, I went with him and signed with the same agent."

Boston to New York is quite a journey for a 16-year-old!

Damon: "I look at it now and I’m shocked!"

Affleck: "I was younger than that! I think it’s a generational thing – our mothers worked and if we really wanted to go to auditions, we had to go to New York alone."

Damon: "We were down in New York getting into all kinds of adventures and they had no idea what we were doing. But we were good kids…"

You both dropped out of university to pursue acting — did you have any doubts?

Damon: "I kept getting jobs while I was at school that meant I’d have to leave. Technically, I think I’m still on an extended leave of absence – so I could go back and finish my senior year.

"By the time I left, my class had graduated, my social circle had gone. A few years later, Good Will Hunting happened, and I was getting paid as a professional writer. So, I thought, why go back and get my English degree?"

Was it the same for you, Casey?

Affleck: "I had a similar experience – I would do a semester and then leave to work on something and go back to school when I didn’t have a job. At times, I’ve really loved being an actor – but there have always been periods where I thought I wanted to do something else. But I’ve never really launched far enough in any one direction to not come back to acting."

Matt, Good Will Hunting was your breakthrough film — how did you cope with sudden stardom?

Damon: "It was really disorientating. It’s like someone rewrites a piece of your code in the matrix – but only for you. Intellectually, you know that everything that mattered yesterday still matters today. The world has the same problems.

"But the world is just never going to be the same for you. When you walk into a room, suddenly everyone turns and looks. It’s bizarre. I think that’s why so many [famous] people behave in odd ways. It’s relentless and it touches every part of your life."

You seem to have navigated fame well, though. What’s your secret?

Damon: "I worked, that’s what I did. There were three or four years where the only place that I was treated entirely normally was in the circus with my fellow circus performers. Movie crews didn’t care – they just wanted to work. So, I hid for a few years while I got my bearings. And then, luckily, I fell in love with someone who was not in the business."

Affleck: "And who would tolerate it!"

Damon: "Yes! And actually, that really helped me – 25 years ago, the gossip magazine culture was huge, but they ignored me. I wasn’t an exciting story – the guy who’s married, it’s boring! Scandal and sex, that’s what people would read magazines for.

"I’ve been really lucky. Especially when I look at Casey’s brother, Ben. We’ve had parallel careers in a lot of ways, but I can’t imagine living under that scrutiny for 25 years."

Doug Liman — who worked with Matt on The Bourne Identity — co-wrote The Instigators with you, Casey. It looked like a hoot to film — was it as fun behind the scenes?

Damon: "We set out to make a fun action comedy, a movie that people would enjoy. We wanted it to be really entertaining."

And it’s only an hour and a half — a bonus in a climate where films seem to be getting longer…

Damon: "Yeah, it’s a quick one! We didn’t want to overstay our welcome. It’s fun and fast – but underneath that, there are themes about mental health, job insecurity for people in middle age, disruptions in the economy and political corruption. It’s not just a popcorn piece of entertainment – hopefully, the characters stay with you."

The Instigators is available to stream globally on Apple TV+ - you can sign up to Apple TV+ here.

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