The Last of Us showrunner Craig Mazin talks season 2 and beyond: "I'm obsessed with endings"

While they were working on TLOU season 1, Mazin recalls that Neil Druckmann — the director of the game and his co-showrunner for the TV adaptation — shared one particular scene long before the second game’s release.

"He showed me the sequence from the second game where Joel takes Ellie to the Science Museum, and brings her into the space capsule," Mazin recalled in our interview.

"And so it was just a long cut scene, you know? And it was done. It was complete. And I was just blown away. And I was like, ‘Okay, well, that's absolutely beautiful. I can't wait to play this game’.

"And Neil said, ‘Well, you know, we have a version you could play now, if you wanted, but it's not completely finished. There may be some sections that are a bit blobby or grayscale-ish. And I said, ‘No, no, no.’ I like to see things as the artist intends. So, for instance, I don't let my wife see the show until it's done, because I want her to see it as we meant for it to be seen. So I refused, and I'm happy I did, because I love the game."

So Mazin then had to wait for the second game’s 2020 launch? Was he sat there like the rest of the TLOU fans, who’d been waiting since 2013 for a follow-up?

"I got it a little bit early," Mazin admitted. "I got a code that was, you know, maybe about three or four weeks before it was officially released to the public. But I was able to play it when it when it was complete, and I was just so happy."

And was Mazin able to separate himself the fan from himself the showrunner of the TV adaptation?

"No, not at all," he told us. "In fact, I remember saying to Neil, ‘This is a great gift.’ Because, Neil and I knew more about the characters and the world of The Last of Us, at that point, than Neil himself knew when he made the first game.

"Because we had the benefit of seeing how things would change. And I'm obsessed with endings. I just think everything is about the ending, you know?

"And knowing the trajectory of things, I think, definitely informed how we thought about making the first season. Obviously, we didn't do an enormous amount of retconning or anything like that. It was just good to have it in mind."

Speaking of endings, Mazin recently said on his Script Notes podcast — during a chat with Andor’s Tony Gilroy — that he knows the ending of the TLOU show.

Does he mean that he knows where the second game ends? Or does he have something else in mind? Because fans of the game can still picture The Last of Us Part 2’s conclusion pretty vividly.

"Oh sure," Mazin said. "No, no, we think about the ending of the show quite a bit. And that's not to say that... I can't say that I've got all the specifics down because I haven't written the final episode, but we understand where we want to go.

"Otherwise, as I said in that conversation with Tony [Gilroy], and he feels similarly — how do you know what to write if you don't know where you're going? How can you surprise anybody, if there's no...

"I think of us like magicians. We need to know what the trick is, or else we don't know what card to have up our sleeve, you know?"

Adapting The Last of Us Part 2 for TV offers no shortage of challenges and opportunities, from deciding how to reckon with the new character Abby, to finding a place for composer Gustavo Santaolalla to cameo.

Abby isn’t the only new character, either. How did Mazin, Druckmann and their colleagues go about casting so many new faces – from Isabela Merced's Dina to Young Mazino's Jesse and beyond?

In Mazin’s words: "Just as we think so, so intently about the narrative choices we make, when it comes to casting we’re rather obsessive.

"It all starts with Mary Vernieu, our casting director, who makes lists, and her lists are very informed by her awareness of people out there.

"So, you know, I actually wasn't that familiar with, for instance, Isabela Merced, until Mary said to me and Neil, ‘You really need to watch these things. You need to know this kid.’ And I say kid, I mean proper adult, but I'm old, so she's a kid to me.

"And we loved what we saw. And so then the next step is to meet that person and to sit with them and get their sense of interest in the show.

Read more:

• The Last of Us season 2 review: Unrivalled storytelling that lays bare the best and worst of humanity
• The Last of Us star Bella Ramsey has proved every doubter wrong with one season 2 moment

"Because a lot of times, half of the battle is casting a really talented person who really wants to do it. There is no substitute for desire, because it's such a hard, long production. If you don't really want to be there… if you want to do a job because, I don't know, your agent says would be good for your career, or because there's a paycheque… somewhere through the gruelling 10 months of shooting, you're gonna go, ‘I can't anymore. I don't want to.’

"And so we sit and we talk with them, and then we don't bother with chemistry readings. We have faith that if we think this person, for instance, is Dina or Abby or Jesse or Nora or Mel or Owen, that it will blend.

"And maybe that's foolish of us, but I have to say, we've been rewarded every time. So seeing Bella and Isabela in a scene together for the first time, you know, ‘Action! Cut!’ We're gonna be great. Everything's gonna be fine. These two together, magic, 100 per cent.”

Before we were ushered out of the room, we had to ask about The Last of Us season 3, which had just been confirmed the day before our interview.

Now that a third run is locked in, does the process start of trying to work out whether that will be final season?

"Yes, yes," Mazin said. "I'm gonna get on a plane tomorrow, go back home, sleep a short amount, and then the work begins anew.

"But yes, I think once we have a really good sense of how this next season will lay out exactly, then we will know for sure what comes after that.

"But we're obviously, you know, we're thrilled. I mean, we haven't aired yet, but the show has been received so well. And HBO has shown just remarkable faith in us by renewing us like this. It's not something they typically do, so we're very grateful."

Fans, too, will be grateful to know that The Last of Us will continue to grace our screens and give video game adaptations a good name. Now we just have to buckle in for the twists and turns ahead!

The Last of Us season 2 is now showing on Sky Atlantic and NOW.

Check out more of our Sci-Fi coverage or visit our TV Guide and Streaming Guideto find out what's on. For more from the biggest stars in TV, listen to The Radio Times Podcast.